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	<title>Comments on: How long is Adobe Flash going to be around?</title>
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	<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/</link>
	<description>Open Innovation, Open Source, Open Standards in Web Technologies</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:21:34 +0200</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Raju Bitter</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Bitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-897</guid>
		<description>That is definitely true: In many of the discussions around Flash it is never said that Adobe has some very good tools for building HTML/CSS/JavaScript based applications. As a tool maker it doesn&#039;t make sense to limit yourself to one plug-in only. Most UI designers and UX experts would probably say that there&#039;s no other company providing tools with such a good workflow integration as Adobe does. And they would be correct.

So why aren&#039;t there equally good tools visual for building open standards based RIAs? Macromind/Macromedia/Adobe have a total of more than &lt;a href=&quot;http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/07/07/the-timeline-from-videoworks-in-1985-to-silverlight-and-javafx/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;20 years of experience in building timeline based animation tools&lt;/a&gt; (the first timeline based UI I know was the Videoworks frontend in 1985). If you would bring that experience to building Flash-like RIAs the open standards based way, that would be a valuable product. Personally I believe that - as soon as tide turns against Flash - Adobe will come up with such a tool - which I would welcome very much!

I&#039;m aware of &lt;a href=&quot;http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Adobe Spry&lt;/a&gt; from the first days the product was announced, and always had the hope that you&#039;d use that complement the Flex framework, something like an Ajax runtime for Flex.

Thanks for the information on NSAPI (Netscape Plugin) support in Google Chrome Frame, that&#039;s interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is definitely true: In many of the discussions around Flash it is never said that Adobe has some very good tools for building HTML/CSS/JavaScript based applications. As a tool maker it doesn&#8217;t make sense to limit yourself to one plug-in only. Most UI designers and UX experts would probably say that there&#8217;s no other company providing tools with such a good workflow integration as Adobe does. And they would be correct.</p>
<p>So why aren&#8217;t there equally good tools visual for building open standards based RIAs? Macromind/Macromedia/Adobe have a total of more than <a href="http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/07/07/the-timeline-from-videoworks-in-1985-to-silverlight-and-javafx/" rel="nofollow">20 years of experience in building timeline based animation tools</a> (the first timeline based UI I know was the Videoworks frontend in 1985). If you would bring that experience to building Flash-like RIAs the open standards based way, that would be a valuable product. Personally I believe that &#8211; as soon as tide turns against Flash &#8211; Adobe will come up with such a tool &#8211; which I would welcome very much!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware of <a href="http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/spry/" rel="nofollow">Adobe Spry</a> from the first days the product was announced, and always had the hope that you&#8217;d use that complement the Flex framework, something like an Ajax runtime for Flex.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information on NSAPI (Netscape Plugin) support in Google Chrome Frame, that&#8217;s interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: John Dowdell</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dowdell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-895</guid>
		<description>Hi Raju, Adobe already makes popular HTML tools... cross-version cross-browser creation tools like Dreamweaver, efficient serverside manipulation like ColdFusion, JavaScript-savvy image editing like Fireworks, many other uses. The Flash Platform is trying to complement and enhance those HTML abilities, and has its own set of creation tools optimized for that task. The Adobe tooling does support both HTML and SWF.

btw, the source code to Google Chrome Frame does reveal an NSAPI (Netscape Plugin) interface, in addition to the ActiveX Control (for MSIE/Win) more popularly discussed:
http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/09/chrome-frame-not-just-for-internet.html

jd/adobe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Raju, Adobe already makes popular HTML tools&#8230; cross-version cross-browser creation tools like Dreamweaver, efficient serverside manipulation like ColdFusion, JavaScript-savvy image editing like Fireworks, many other uses. The Flash Platform is trying to complement and enhance those HTML abilities, and has its own set of creation tools optimized for that task. The Adobe tooling does support both HTML and SWF.</p>
<p>btw, the source code to Google Chrome Frame does reveal an NSAPI (Netscape Plugin) interface, in addition to the ActiveX Control (for MSIE/Win) more popularly discussed:<br />
<a href="http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/09/chrome-frame-not-just-for-internet.html" rel="nofollow">http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/09/chrome-frame-not-just-for-internet.html</a></p>
<p>jd/adobe</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-887</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-887</guid>
		<description>Flash is not all happiness! Some things work well, some others don&#039;t. Take the problem with Linux and unicode: FP-40 bug, 250 votes to resolve the bug - and nothing happening. That&#039;s the sad part of the Flash story, and one wonders if Adobe made a deal with Microsoft to give as little support to Flash on Linux as possible.

Then JavaScript  - a lot of promising stories, but let&#039;s see what&#039;s going to happen with IE in the future. Maybe the Google Chrome Frame attempt to improve IE will get the Microsoft guys going.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flash is not all happiness! Some things work well, some others don&#8217;t. Take the problem with Linux and unicode: FP-40 bug, 250 votes to resolve the bug &#8211; and nothing happening. That&#8217;s the sad part of the Flash story, and one wonders if Adobe made a deal with Microsoft to give as little support to Flash on Linux as possible.</p>
<p>Then JavaScript  &#8211; a lot of promising stories, but let&#8217;s see what&#8217;s going to happen with IE in the future. Maybe the Google Chrome Frame attempt to improve IE will get the Microsoft guys going.</p>
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		<title>By: Raju Bitter</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-884</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Bitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-884</guid>
		<description>@John I always wonder how you manage to comment on so many blog posts around the world - and for so many years!

To make it clear, I&#039;m not saying that there&#039;s no use case for deploying Flash applications in the future. And everyone has to acknowledge the incredible contributions in the field of RIAs, good browser based UIs, and state-of-the-art user experience coming from Macromedia, Adobe and the huge Flash community. The fact that neither Silverlight nor JavaFX have managed to come up with APIs for microphone or webcam access shows that Adobe is still in a good position. But then, the Microsoft WPF/Silverlight team is gigantic, I heard that around 2,5000 people world wide are working on the technology. And that&#039;s a race a smaller company cannot win, you are not going to beat Sun/Oracle of Microsoft when it comes to plug-in or VM development in the long term.

The runtime environment for JavaScript will deliver equal performance to the Adobe Virtual Machine 2 (AVM2) within 18 months. But looking at how many companies use Webkit right now (Apple, Nokia, Google, ....), and then Google Chrome on its own shows that the number of engineers developing browser based virtual machines is drastically increasing.

I wonder when we&#039;ll see an &quot;Export as JavaScript&quot; menu in Flash Builder/Flash authoring tool, that would be really a step forwards. Or how about a Flash to JavaScript compiler. Has Adobe never thought of building something like a JavaScript runtime for Flex - not that I expect you to tells us something like that? Laszlo has proven that this can be done, and OpenLaszlo uses the  Flex SDK internally.

If I was in Adobe&#039;s position, I&#039;d consider to make JavaScript the 2nd runtime for my whole suite of applications for web designers and developers.

@Angel I&#039;m not convinced that Google will come up with a Firefox version of Chrome Frame. They need Chrome Frame for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google Apps Premier Edition&lt;/a&gt; offering, as many of the businesses still have IE only installed on their machines . Those apps run without any problems on Firefox or Safari/Webkit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John I always wonder how you manage to comment on so many blog posts around the world &#8211; and for so many years!</p>
<p>To make it clear, I&#8217;m not saying that there&#8217;s no use case for deploying Flash applications in the future. And everyone has to acknowledge the incredible contributions in the field of RIAs, good browser based UIs, and state-of-the-art user experience coming from Macromedia, Adobe and the huge Flash community. The fact that neither Silverlight nor JavaFX have managed to come up with APIs for microphone or webcam access shows that Adobe is still in a good position. But then, the Microsoft WPF/Silverlight team is gigantic, I heard that around 2,5000 people world wide are working on the technology. And that&#8217;s a race a smaller company cannot win, you are not going to beat Sun/Oracle of Microsoft when it comes to plug-in or VM development in the long term.</p>
<p>The runtime environment for JavaScript will deliver equal performance to the Adobe Virtual Machine 2 (AVM2) within 18 months. But looking at how many companies use Webkit right now (Apple, Nokia, Google, &#8230;.), and then Google Chrome on its own shows that the number of engineers developing browser based virtual machines is drastically increasing.</p>
<p>I wonder when we&#8217;ll see an &#8220;Export as JavaScript&#8221; menu in Flash Builder/Flash authoring tool, that would be really a step forwards. Or how about a Flash to JavaScript compiler. Has Adobe never thought of building something like a JavaScript runtime for Flex &#8211; not that I expect you to tells us something like that? Laszlo has proven that this can be done, and OpenLaszlo uses the  Flex SDK internally.</p>
<p>If I was in Adobe&#8217;s position, I&#8217;d consider to make JavaScript the 2nd runtime for my whole suite of applications for web designers and developers.</p>
<p>@Angel I&#8217;m not convinced that Google will come up with a Firefox version of Chrome Frame. They need Chrome Frame for the <a href="http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/index.html" rel="nofollow">Google Apps Premier Edition</a> offering, as many of the businesses still have IE only installed on their machines . Those apps run without any problems on Firefox or Safari/Webkit.</p>
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		<title>By: Angel Kafazov</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-882</link>
		<dc:creator>Angel Kafazov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-882</guid>
		<description>Hi Raju, nice post. I am excited about the chrome frame project, hope they&#039;ll bring a plugin for firefox too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Raju, nice post. I am excited about the chrome frame project, hope they&#8217;ll bring a plugin for firefox too.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dowdell</title>
		<link>http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/2009/09/23/how-long-is-adobe-flash-going-to-be-around/comment-page-1/#comment-880</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dowdell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://openfuture.rajubitter.com/?p=1024#comment-880</guid>
		<description>Most of those demos are ports of older (and openly-shared) Flash work. 

And not all Flash projects have seen attempted ports yet.... ;-)

I think it&#039;s developers who will continue to innovate new projects. They&#039;ll look for the delivery platforms that work.  And it&#039;s easier to herd one kitten into a paper bag, than it is to herd six kittens into a paper bag.... ;-)

jd/adobe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of those demos are ports of older (and openly-shared) Flash work. </p>
<p>And not all Flash projects have seen attempted ports yet&#8230;. ;-)</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s developers who will continue to innovate new projects. They&#8217;ll look for the delivery platforms that work.  And it&#8217;s easier to herd one kitten into a paper bag, than it is to herd six kittens into a paper bag&#8230;. ;-)</p>
<p>jd/adobe</p>
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